Talking about block themes there is one that you can‘t miss: Ollie WP by Mike McAlister and his team. We‘re curious to get to know their story so far and their plans for the future. What does Mike think about Project Gutenberg and the future of WordPress? Here we go (or read the German translation):
Hi, Mike! We‘re thrilled to have you in our interview series. Thanks so much for taking the time to answer our questions! We‘ve already been recommending Ollie WP in „Einstieg in WordPress 6“ and will continue to do so in the next edition. I‘ve used the theme for the web site phc.no in November 2023 and really like it. How did this theme come into being and what were the main requirements you wanted to meet with it? And why the name Ollie?

I started building Ollie a few years ago as an exploration of what was possible in WordPress block themes. I have been building WordPress themes for 15 years now, so I was really curious about this new technology. Although there is a learning curve, I knew these kinds of themes were going to be important for the continued growth of WordPress.
Once I felt like block themes were stable enough to share it with folks and distribute it on the repo, I started thinking about what an official version might look like. It was important to me that the theme really surprised people and helped them see what was possible with block themes.
I used my many years of design experience to release the best possible design that was still fully customizable within the block and site editor. I tapped into all of the new tools and wired them up with beautiful styles, patterns, templates, and more.
I used the new tools and wired them up with beautiful styles, patterns, templates, and more
When coming up with a name for the theme, I wanted something that could work for a brand, not just a theme. I knew I wanted to build an ecosystem around it. So I looked for names that had a friendly vibe to it. The word “ollie” is a skateboard term, and I thought that could give us some fun and unique visual language and terminology to work with.
What I really like about Ollie WP are the patterns, even in the free version. You once said that patterns are the one thing that sets block themes apart. Can you please elaborate on that?

Patterns are a huge game changer for WordPress websites! We’ve never really had modular, pre-designed page sections like this in WordPress, and they totally change the way we make websites now. Patterns can be as small as a call-to-action box, or a hero section, or a full-page design. You insert them into the page, customize the content, and hit Publish.
Ollie comes with 50+ free patterns that you can use to build beautiful websites. They are all designed cohesively, so you can mix and match them to create dozens of unique layouts for your website. And you can do this all within WordPress without a page builder, since it’s all built right into WordPress now.
After the success of Ollie, my partner Patrick and I released Ollie Pro. With Ollie Pro, you get even more beautiful, responsive WordPress patterns. We have different collections of patterns, styles, and templates to help you design better, build faster, and publish sooner.

What do you think of Project Gutenberg in general so far? What aspects do you like best so far and why?

In my opinion, it’s been a great success thus far. I know that might be a controversial opinion since a lot of people are still warming up to it. But let’s look at just a few of the most valuable features we get out of the box with WordPress now:
- Native page builder and expressive content editor
- Global styling of your entire site
- Patterns and synced patterns, which are like components
- Performance enhancements like smart asset loading
- An extensible JavaScript engine that you can use to build native interfaces
- A new premium product economy around blocks and intuitive experiences
A lot of people are still warming up to it, but in my opinion, Gutenberg has been a great success.
Where do you see room for improvement in the current core version?

Right now, the biggest improvements could be made around docs and workflows. There are a few blind spots when making block themes that often trip people up.
We need a super seamless way to build sites in the editor and export them to disk and migrate them. We have the Create Block Theme plugin, which is really helpful for this, but there are still a few pieces missing.
In the beginning, the free version of Ollie WP was planned with an onboarding wizard that soon had to be moved to a plugin because WordPress considered it to be against theme regulations. What was your intention behind adding it to the theme directly in the first place and how has the whole story been received by the users?

There were a few reasons we wanted to include the onboarding wizard in the theme. First and foremost, users were already having trouble with block themes. There’s a lot to learn! And these new concepts aren’t entirely intuitive. So we wanted to see if we could solve some of those problems in a very clean and efficient way.
The setup wizard helps users change common settings when setting up a new site, and they can do it all within an intuitive and quick interface. You can set common settings, create pages based on patterns, select your color palette and more.
The Ollie setup wizard helps users change common settings when setting up a new site.
Ultimately, it didn’t work out in the free theme as it went against some of the rules on the WordPress.org theme repository. After a lot of back and forth, we eventually removed it.
Eventually, when we released Ollie Pro, the onboarding wizard became part of that plugin, and now lives on for Pro users.
Where do you personally draw the line between what has to be part of a block theme and what is the job of plugins or a Pro version?

I’ll start by saying that it’s important that we’ve had these well-defined theme vs plugin territory rules over the years. But we also shouldn’t be shy about revising those rules to ensure we’re all still in alignment and they aren’t stifling innovation or the user experience.
We were trying to push some boundaries with Ollie, not to be rule-breakers, but to say we think we’re in a different spot with block themes now, and they require looking at things a little differently.
For example, for the longest time we had strict rules about the separation of content and appearance in WordPress. It was the rallying cry for so long! But now we have the block editor, and content and appearance are blended together. We’ve moved on from that, even if we haven’t said it out loud.
In the block editor content and appearance are blended together.
That said, there are still very clear lines of what belongs in a theme or a plugin, and we largely agree. The reason we thought onboarding in Ollie was worth a try is because this innovation was in pursuit of a better block theme experience.
Ultimately, we’re happy with where we landed and the onboarding wizard makes more sense in Ollie Pro.
What do you think will be the role of themes in the Full-Site-Editing-universe?

Personally, I think we’re going to see a lot less themes than we used to. And I have a feeling users will not change their themes as often. That’s because it’s a lot easier to change the look of your site using the global styles panel. You don’t necessarily need to switch themes to change your font or get a slightly different style. You can just do everything in the editor now.
Block themes are going to change the way we build sites from the beginning.
I also think block themes are going to change the way we build sites from the beginning. If you architect your site with block theme features like patterns, synced patterns, and sensible templates, you can really make future improvements and maintenance a breeze.

What is happening next with Ollie WP and will there be other block themes from you and your team?

We don’t plan on releasing another theme, largely because we don’t need to. Ollie is a great foundation to build off of. We can add more styles to it to give users the feeling of a brand new site, without releasing a new theme.
On top of that, Ollie Pro will continue to grow with more pattern collections and style packs. This means you can very quickly change the look of your site without hunting for a new theme or designing sections yourself.
With Ollie Pro you can very quickly change the look of your site without a new theme.
Our Ollie Pro site wizard is going to get a big update soon as well. This will include the ability for devs to quickly generate new themes based on Ollie Pro pattern collections, a more streamlined new site setup, and more.
Is there anything else you‘d like to tell our readers about WordPress? Or block themes? Or Ollie?

I am incredibly excited about the current state of WordPress, and it just keeps getting better with every release.
I’m always very up front with folks — there is definitely a learning curve. This is a lot of new technology, new UI, new terminology, and new workflows. It’s a whole different kind of WordPress, but it’s totally worth learning it.
And once you do learn it, you can build sites very quickly with it. It’s refreshing not worrying about which page builder you have to use anymore. You can just use WordPress core and build a new workflow around that instead.
Pick up a free theme like Ollie or the default theme and just start experimenting with it. We’ve got some tutorials on YouTube and more on the way!
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